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Old 01-18-2010, 10:20 PM  bigfelipe is offline     #1 (permalink)
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Default U.S. Military Weapons Inscribed With Secret 'Jesus' Bible Codes

Got this off another forum. I don't see the big deal. People who complain about stuff like this piss me off...

U.S. Military Weapons Inscribed With Secret 'Jesus' Bible Codes

Pentagon Supplier for Rifle Sights Says It Has 'Always' Added New Testament References
By JOSEPH RHEE, TAHMAN BRADLEY and BRIAN ROSS
Jan. 18, 2010 —


Coded references to New Testament Bible passages about Jesus Christ are inscribed on high-powered rifle sights provided to the United States military by a Michigan company, an ABC News investigation has found.

The sights are used by U.S. troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and in the training of Iraqi and Afghan soldiers. The maker of the sights, Trijicon, has a $660 million multi-year contract to provide up to 800,000 sights to the Marine Corps, and additional contracts to provide sights to the U.S. Army.

U.S. military rules specifically prohibit the proselytizing of any religion in Iraq or Afghanistan and were drawn up in order to prevent criticism that the U.S. was embarked on a religious "Crusade" in its war against al Qaeda and Iraqi insurgents.

One of the citations on the gun sights, 2COR4:6, is an apparent reference to Second Corinthians 4:6 of the New Testament, which reads: "For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ."

Other references include citations from the books of Revelation, Matthew and John dealing with Jesus as "the light of the world." John 8:12, referred to on the gun sights as JN8:12, reads, "Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

Trijicon confirmed to ABCNews.com that it adds the biblical codes to the sights sold to the U.S. military. Tom Munson, director of sales and marketing for Trijicon, which is based in Wixom, Michigan, said the inscriptions "have always been there" and said there was nothing wrong or illegal with adding them. Munson said the issue was being raised by a group that is "not Christian." The company has said the practice began under its founder, Glyn Bindon, a devout Christian from South Africa who was killed in a 2003 plane crash.


'It violates the Constitution'

The company's vision is described on its Web site: "Guided by our values, we endeavor to have our products used wherever precision aiming solutions are required to protect individual freedom."
"We believe that America is great when its people are good," says the Web site. "This goodness has been based on Biblical standards throughout our history, and we will strive to follow those morals."

Spokespeople for the U.S. Army and the Marine Corps both said their services were unaware of the biblical markings. They said officials were discussing what steps, if any, to take in the wake of the ABCNews.com report. It is not known how many Trijicon sights are currently in use by the U.S. military.

The biblical references appear in the same type font and size as the model numbers on the company's Advanced Combat Optical Guides, called the ACOG.

A photo on a Department of Defense Web site shows Iraqi soldiers being trained by U.S. troops with a rifle equipped with the bible-coded sights.

"It's wrong, it violates the Constitution, it violates a number of federal laws," said Michael "Mikey" Weinstein of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, an advocacy group that seeks to preserve the separation of church and state in the military.


'Firearms of Jesus Christ'

"It allows the Mujahedeen, the Taliban, al Qaeda and the insurrectionists and jihadists to claim they're being shot by Jesus rifles," he said.
Weinstein, an attorney and former Air Force officer, said many members of his group who currently serve in the military have complained about the markings on the sights. He also claims they've told him that commanders have referred to weapons with the sights as "spiritually transformed firearm[s] of Jesus Christ."

He said coded biblical inscriptions play into the hands of "those who are calling this a Crusade."

According to a government contracting watchdog group, fedspending.org, Trijicon had more than $100 million in government contracts in fiscal year 2008. The Michigan company won a $33 million Pentagon contract in July, 2009 for a new machine gun optic, according to Defense Industry Daily. The company's earnings from the U.S. military jumped significantly after 2005, when it won a $660 million long-term contract to supply the Marine Corps with sights.

"This is probably the best example of violation of the separation of church and state in this country," said Weinstein. "It's literally pushing fundamentalist Christianity at the point of a gun against the people that we're fighting. We're emboldening an enemy."

http://abcnews.go.com/print?id=9575794
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Old 01-18-2010, 10:54 PM  Kappy is offline     #2 (permalink)
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Wow. Interesting. I'm a pretty devout secularist, so I see the argument, I just don't see it being a really big deal. If I were in the field and found it on mine, I'd just use some rubbing compound and remove it. No need to make a federal case out of it.
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Old 01-18-2010, 11:00 PM  mojo is offline     #3 (permalink)
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The argument here could be like they said, another Christian Crusade with rifle optics promoting the crusade itself, regardless of the religion of the shooter themselves. The company should really have never passed the scrutiny of the overseers responsible for the ok'ing of the contract considering they promote themselves in the way they do on their website.
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Old 01-18-2010, 11:28 PM  Geek is offline     #4 (permalink)
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I may ruffle feathers on this but it shouldn't be allowed. Trijicon should replace every sight they have a religious reference on.

1). Imagine if they had a reference to the Qur'an on it? Citizens would be up in arms about that.

2). We are fighting against religious extremists who need FAR less of a reason to keep their war going. Look what a simple cartoon did. Trijicon has been negligent in what they've done.

3). On the SIGHTS no less. Every US soldier who kills a terrorist (religious extremist) with a rifle does so "through" Jesus.

4). This is most important to me. I HATE when religion is crammed down my throat. "In god we trust" does not bother me. There can be many different Gods depending on the religion. If the US $ said "In Jesus we trust"... I'd be against that.
 
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Old 01-18-2010, 11:29 PM  Geek is offline     #5 (permalink)
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I should note that I don't care what religion someone is. They can be whatever they want as long as they give me the same respect.
 
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:07 AM  Kappy is offline     #6 (permalink)
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Matt... I have one question to ask:

Why do you hate America?

Just kidding. You do have a point.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:15 AM  acclude is offline     #7 (permalink)
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Here's my thing. They didn't secretly or maliciously put the verses on the sights. The military is the one at fault for not knowing the product they selected. The company should not be responsible for replacing them.....it's not their fault. They make a product. The military bought the product, and has a contract for it. The contract needs to be honored and if by chance it is broken, then the military would be the one to absorb any financial loss because of the mistake on their part of not knowing the product they purchased.

On a personal note, I'd feel a lot better if my sight had a Bible verse on it. Almost like a reassurance that God is here with me. It's not a "Holy War" to me. It's personal comfort.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:20 AM  Geek is offline     #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acclude View Post
Here's my thing. They didn't secretly or maliciously put the verses on the sights. The military is the one at fault for not knowing the product they selected. The company should not be responsible for replacing them.....it's not their fault. They make a product. The military bought the product, and has a contract for it. The contract needs to be honored and if by chance it is broken, then the military would be the one to absorb any financial loss because of the mistake on their part of not knowing the product they purchased.

On a personal note, I'd feel a lot better if my sight had a Bible verse on it. Almost like a reassurance that God is here with me. It's not a "Holy War" to me. It's personal comfort.
I can agree with that. I think Trijicon should have kept religion out of their government contract but the government should also have inspected the sights better.
 
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:21 AM  Geek is offline     #9 (permalink)
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Through a pretty intense debate on another thread I should clarify my view:

Trijicon should be able to write whatever they like for the private market.

For their government contract, they should have cut religion and any other views out completely.
 
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:35 AM  acclude is offline     #10 (permalink)
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I agree, but it was up to the government to request the verses not be there and specify that in the contract. Otherwise, Trijicon was just going to make their product like they always have.
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